interview with David Mathieson, by Raluca Enescu

Human Rights Watch is the largest human rights organization based in the United States. Human Rights Watch researchers conduct fact-finding investigations into human rights abuses in all regions of the world. Human Rights Watch then publishes those findings in dozens of books and reports every year. In extreme circumstances, Human Rights Watch presses for the withdrawal of military and economic support from governments that egregiously violate the rights of their people. In moments of crisis, Human Rights Watch provides up-to-the-minute information about conflicts while they are underway.

More than 150 dedicated professionals_ lawyers, journalists, academics, and country experts of many nationalities and diverse backgrounds_ work for Human Rights Watch around the world. And they often join forces with human rights groups from other countries to further their common goals. A growing cadre of volunteers supports them.

It is common sense that everyone reading the Burma Digest has got a certain opinion on the most pressing issues Burma is dealing with; but while formulating and supporting opinions is a necessary exercise of democracy, there is, even more important, a need for objective and realistic analysis on all those issues.

In this interview with David Mathieson, consultant of Human Rights Watch on Burma issues, an attempt has been made to address a number of important problems, from child soldiers and forced labor, to the question of whether there are cases of genocide in Burma.

BURMA DIGEST: Could you please explain briefly to our readers, in which way does Human Rights Watch support the struggle for democracy and human rights in Burma?

David Mathieson: Human Rights Watch has been documenting a range of human rights violations in Burma for more than 15 years, drawing attention around the world to abuses against civilians in conflict areas and in cities. We have released substantial reports on child soldiers, internal displacement, religious freedoms, and migrant workers and refugees in neighboring countries. We have also released regular news items and opinion pieces on aspects of Burma’s dire human rights situation, including the use of landmines, political prisoners, the United Nations Security Council and international investment that could support repressive military rule. We stand with the victims of abuses from all sides of Burma’s political and social spectrum to promote the universal human rights and respect of international humanitarian law.

BURMA DIGEST: How are your organization’s reports documented? How do you gather information?

David Mathieson: Human Rights Watch reports are documented using interviews with victims of abuses and their perpetrators, as well as interviewing other civilians with knowledge of the wider situation. We look at all sources of information, including the government and military publications, and produce an independent and impartial assessment of abuses against civilians. All Human Rights Watch documentation is confidential and independently gathered.

BURMA DIGEST: What do you think are, at this moment, the most urgent and critical issues about the situation in Burma?

David Mathieson: There are a range of serious human rights issues in Burma, with the most egregious being abuses against civilians in conflict areas, where extrajudicial killings, sexual violence, forced labor and widespread forced internal displacement are perpetrated with impunity by Burmese military units in areas from the military offensive in Northern Karen State to Shan State, and areas close to ethnic ceasefire areas where military abuses are still widespread. Other violations throughout the country include the continuing use of forced labor, the incarceration of over 1,000 political prisoners, and the denial of basic freedoms such as freedom of expression, assembly and the freedom to information and movement. Government obstacles to the free and unfettered dispersal of humanitarian assistance and independent monitoring by UN and ICRC agencies are also a major concern given the huge scale of Burma’s health and poverty crisis.

BURMA DIGEST: One extreme form of human rights abuses widespread in Burma is using children in armed conflict; as I know that Human Rights Watch has been, over the years, following the matter closely, could you please tell us what, exactly, is happening and who is responsible?

David Mathieson: Burma has one of the world’s highest number of underage soldiers, which Human Rights Watch calculated in its 2002 report “My Gun Was as Tall as Me”, to be approximately twenty percent, which for an army of over 400,000 is alarmingly large. The SPDC has taken steps to inform the world that they have no child soldiers and take measures to limit forced enlistment of underage recruits, in its “Committee for Protection Against Recruitment of Minors” started in 2004, and it has invited UN agencies such as UNICEF and UNDP to monitor this program. Nevertheless, there are still many child soldiers in Burma’s army, Human Rights Watch recently interviewed one who corroborated widespread reports of forced recruitment, although the exact number of soldiers serving in the Burmese military who are technically underage is extremely difficult to determine. Recruiters for the army are in many cases serving soldiers or recruiters who must fix quotas in local areas. There are credible reports that the Burmese army continues to have orphanages for young boys in military camps, and there is ample evidence that children continued to be used in frontline duties. The SPDC must do more to end this long standing practice, and cooperate more with the international community. Anti-government resistance forces also use child soldiers, including the Karen, Karenni and Shan armies, although due to the asymmetric nature of the conflict their use is much lower. These groups have also cooperated with international agencies to reduce and end their use of child soldiers, but all parties to the conflict must do more to completely end the use of children in armed combat.

BURMA DIGEST: From what ethnic and socio-economical background are most child soldiers recruited?

David Mathieson: Underage soldiers in Burma’s army are from almost every socio-ethnic group in the country, although they must speak fluent Burmese so many young boys from ethnic areas with no school or Burmese language skills are not targeted. Many forced recruits are made to serve well away from their habitual place of residence, for example if someone is recruited in Arakan State they will not serve there, but in another corner of Burma. Most of the officer class is not forcibly recruited, although some are, and many are predominantly Burman Buddhist because their loyalty to the central state is crucial, as well as accounting for the majority of the population. In ethnic opposition armies virtually all soldiers are from that ethnic group, or those that are aligned with the ethnic group.

BURMA DIGEST: What about forced labor? Where is it most used? Why? What social/ethnic groups are more affected by these practices?

David Mathieson: Forced labor in Burma is widespread and systematic throughout the country, with many local officials utilizing forced labor in some ways, to build roads, carry out infrastructure project tasks, or simply provide labor for government agencies. The most forced labor occurs in conflict areas where the Burmese army uses civilians to carry equipment, build bases or upkeep army instillations, or walk through area suspected of having landmines. It is used in these areas because of the limitations of the Burmese army and a culture of impunity that that local army units think they can get away with it. The International Labor Organization has done commendable work for many years uncovering these practices and pressuring the SPDC to end the use of forced labor and fulfill their obligations under international agreements to stamp out what is in effect modern slavery.

BURMA DIGEST: The Burma Digest has been trying to collect evidences of genocide in Burma; do you think this is the case? Can we say that we are dealing with cases of genocide?

David Mathieson: That is an extremely serious charge. The widespread and destructive practices of the Burma army over six decades has been to build a tightly controlled state that conforms with a narrow vision of nationalism and predominantly Burman Buddhist culture that is not inclusive of the countries diverse ethnic and religious groups, or the political desire of most of the country. This has resulted in untold numbers of deaths and abuses and deprivation of social and cultural rights, but this is because of a lazy and brutal military government that believes there are only three options for people to make: which is to conform, flee the country, or die. The conflict has been prolonged because so many people, from urban dissidents, farmers in the countryside, to ethnic civilians in the borderlands, and youth and monks in many parts of the country, do not wish to live under such a system, so resistance to this authoritarian form of rule has been widespread. The reason for abuses against people in Burma, especially against ethnic nationalities, is to control them. Genocide as a phenomenon in Burma has been charged many times before, and it is a suitable topic for the UN Human Rights Council to convene a Commission of Inquiry to investigate these charges. The UN Security Council should also investigate claims of genocide which would warrant further action.

BURMA DIGEST: The military junta intends to call upon a National Convention to draft a new Constitution; while part of the media sees this as a step towards democratization, more and more campaign groups argue that this is only a scam for the dictators to gain legitimacy and enshrine military rule. What would be your point of view on the issue?

David Mathieson: The National Convention is a crucial part of the SPDC’s political reform process, which is planned to produce a constitution that will entrench military control over the country. It will not produce a form of democracy conducive to civilian participation, or a genuinely free system that accords equal right to all members of society. This process has been going on for 14 years, and it appears likely that it will not be a fair constitution that will emerge. Burma may well have to start all over again.

BURMA DIGEST: What do you think about imposing economical sanctions to Burma, until a change of regime/ improvement of the human rights situation? How would that impact the country and ordinary people?

David Mathieson: It is conventional wisdom that sanctions have failed in Burma, but we must remember that United States and European Union sanctions were designed to pressure the SPDC to respect the rights of Burma’s citizens, something that the military government has failed to do. In this respect, sanctions serve as a reminder to the SPDC how they limit peoples freedoms. The economy continues to fail in Burma because of poor economic management and limited reforms, and the widespread corruption in the system. Many economic ills in Burma, including inflation and rising consumer prices and food shortages cannot be blamed on international sanctions they are the result of poor government policies that spends most of the countries money for the military. There are also many countries who invest heavily in Burma, including China, India, and the countries of Southeast Asia, so there is a lot of investment coming in from many sources. The problem is that political restrictions also place restrictions on the economy, and this inhibits people’s ability to freely trade and start business. And remember, most of the country lives in the countryside and is engaged in agriculture, some of it, like physic nut plantations, forcibly directed by the SPDC, while they import oil and sell the countries natural gas to other countries. Ask any average people in Burma (not rich people or government officials!) if they believe that sanctions or the SPDC are to blame for the poor state of the economy: they will tell you.

BURMA DIGEST: Now, that more and more people from all around the world get involved in Burma campaigns, can we say yet that there is a global movement for freedom in Burma?

David Mathieson: I think there has been a global movement for freedom in Burma for many years, it is a disparate and sometimes disconnected movement, but it binds together many types of people and organizations, at its core those people from Burma, and inside, who are concerned with the social, economic and political freedoms of their own country. The movement is not hierarchical or controlled, but includes media groups, consumer boycott movements, human rights activists, women’s groups, exiled former political prisoners, lawyers groups, environmental campaigners, exiled political groups, and social welfare organizations that all try and raise awareness and provide support for the people of Burma. This large and multi-hued movement is trying to find a way to produce a fairer and more representative system of social justice for all the people of Burma, in many ways large and small. In some ways, this movement can be seen as a Burmese civil society outside the country, most of whom, I believe, want to come home.

BURMA DIGEST: What advice would you give to campaigners for human rights, from your own experience?

David Mathieson: Human rights are under attack from many forces around the world, not just Burma. The strength of the human rights movement and of researchers is that they have the ability to uncover and publicize abuses of people too powerless or afraid to do so, and help bring governments and other perpetrators to account. Human rights research is a difficult and challenging pursuit, but provides the basis for any progressive and fair society and is well worth the effort.